Pride Show: "Living Authentically and Fearlessly" + comedian Manny Petty

The first half of our Pride Edition show features a panel on how to live authentically and fearlessly as a LGBTQ+ person in these challenging times, plus a comedy set with Chicago standup musician Manny Petty. Guest host Matthew Amador. Recorded at Hungry Brain in Chicago.

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Live show sponsor: Rowan Tree Counseling

In this episode:

• Matthew Amador - Psychotherapist for love, sex, & gender rebels
• Sergio Mojica - Educator and community activist
• Andie Baumgartner - Sex-positive therapist 
• Nat Vikitsreth - Decolonized and licensed psychotherapist, burlesque artist, and host of the Come Back to Care Podcast 
• Manny Petty - standup musician

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Transcript

Nat Vikitsreth  0:02  
I am on my gender journey to the point now where "Oh, yes, transgender... that is a part of me. And I am also so much more." So I see the power of labels, for sure when it comes to our own self determination. And we're more than that.

Karen Yates  0:21  
Welcome to Wild & Sublime, a sexy spin on infotainment, no matter your preferences, orientation, or relationship style. Based on the popular live Chicago show, I chat about sex and relationships with citizens from the world of sex positivity. You'll hear meaningful conversations, dialogues that go deeper, and information that can help you become more free in your sexual expression. I'm sex educator and intimacy coach Karen Yates. 

This week, you'll hear the first half of our June pride show. panelists discuss living authentically and fearlessly. Plus stand-up comedy from Manny Petty. Keep listening. Have you been thinking "I'd like to start a podcast?" Well, let me suggest beginning your journey with Buzzsprout, the best way to launch promote and track your podcast. Buzzsprout is a podcast host with both free and paid plans. With them, your Podcast gets listed in all of the major podcast directories like Apple, Spotify, Google and more. Plus, you get a website. And if you say that Wild & Sublime sent to you by clicking on our affiliate link in the show notes, you get 20 bucks and we get 20 bucks. Nice. Go to the shownotes to begin. 

Hey folks, well, I am super pleased about this episode today: part one of our first Pride edition show ever. That was a few weeks ago here in Chicago at the Hungry Brain. A show long overdue I must say for Wild & Sublime. And to continue the firsts, you will be hearing our first guest host ever: therapist and performer Matthew Amador, who co-hosted our February show with me and was so great. I asked him to come back and helm the entire enterprise at the Hungry Brain and he was a big hit.

 The land acknowledgement did not make it into the recording here. So I will say that both the live show was recorded and I am recording now from the land of the Council of three fires-- the Ojibwe, the Odawa and the Potawatomi nations, colonially known as Chicago. You will be hearing today a comedy set from comedian musician Manny Petty followed by a panel discussion on living fearlessly and authentically in these times. On the panel. you will be hearing youth advocate Sergio Mojica, and therapists Andie Baumgartner and Nat Vikitsreth, but we'll be beginning with host Matthew Amador. Enjoy.

Matthew Amador  3:05  
Hi everybody. Welcome to Wild & Sublime, our Pride Show. Welcome everyone. Thank you. Give yourself a round. As you can see, I'm injured today. It happened. It was an accident. I was trying to prove that I was vers. Turns out no. But if anyone knows how you take care of sprains, it tends to be like, you know, compression, ice and elevation. So now my ankle has to be elevated. So my doctor has just pretty much prescribed me to be a bottom for the next four to six weeks. Oops. I will take two of you and um, maybe I'll call you in the morning. Maybe I will. So our first performer is comedian Manny Petty, who exists somewhere between Tom Petty and a mani pedi. He is the queen of parody and daddy jokes. Daddy jokes are just like dad jokes except they're dirtier. So let's go ahead and give it up for Manny Petty! Get out here!

Manny Petty  4:12  
Oh, this is my leather daddy special. Right How's everybody doing? You guys are a good-looking crowd. Give yourselves a round of applause Wow. Oh my god. You didn't just sit down. I love your top Where did you get your top? I'm sorry. I don't mean your shirt. I mean the person next to you-- they looked like they might be a top Yeah, top, right. No. Am I wrong? Did I mis- position you? I'm sorry. I didn't mean to mis-position. I don't like to mis-position people. By the way, Miss Position, great drag name. It's Mrs Position if you're nasty. Okay. So y'all, I just celebrated my one year wedding anniversary. [applause] Thank you. Yeah, my husband's name is Cameron. He's gay too. We're both like middle aged bald men with facial hair. So whenever we travel people just think we're brothers. Like, it's so embarrassing. Like, especially especially if we go to the south. Those people don't care. They'll ask. They're just like "So y'all brothers? Y'all look like brothers. y'all brothers? We're more like sisters, you know, I'm saying, we're like Scissor Sisters. You know, Cameron and I were, we just got married. But we've been together for about eight and a half years. Anybody: long term relationships? Yeah, we hear how long you've been together. 10 years, give it up for 10 years. Oh, that's wonderful. Now you might you might relate to this. So we've been together for a while. So you realize that when you start living with your partner, you realize that what turned them on when you were dating actually changes when you start living together. Do you get that? So I figured it out. Now, whenever I want some action, all I have to do is organize the Tupperware No, I organized Tupperware the other day. And our kitchen was like boner city. We started having like a Star Wars lightsaber battle. Like right in the kitchen. It was like "I'm your daddy!" [light saber sounds] "use the force! Use the force!" You know. And then he entered the dark side of my Endor moon and my Deathstar blew up. I'm sorry, am I ruining Star Wars for the straight people.?I feel like I am. Yeah, okay. I'll stop, I'll stop. But he did spread his freedom throughout like my entire galaxy. So that was he calls me his Jabba the Slut. And I call him my Dark Lord of the Sith...ster. And that was a call back to before, so catch up. What else is going on? 

Also, you know, I think being in a male body, I think sometimes we don't understand what that means. So gentlemen, this is what I'm talking about. If you are walking down the street at night, and you're walking behind somebody that's not male or not male presenting, the thought is going to cross their mind that you might try to kill them. Like I'm just saying. It's statistics, right? So you need to do one of two things. Either you walk across the street, so you're not walking behind them like a creeper. Or you can do what I do, and just start belting out a Spice Girls song. So I'm just like, [sings] "Tell me what you want what you really, really want. I WANNA, I WANNA, I WANNA, if you want to be my lover!" and then at that point, she'll think to herself, "oh, I'm good. I'm good. The murderer is gonna definitely kill him first." So I'm kidding. Murderers love the Spice Girls. Just, by the way, my Spice Girl name Old Spice so... Oh, that was bad! That was a bad one. Daddy joke. Like I said, Daddy jokes. Also, you know, I think gay men. Is it safe to say that we have the most amount of sex partners? Is that safe to say? Yes. Okay. No, it's not. It's not because we're guys. I mean, it's not because we're gay. It's because we're guys and guys are what's the name in English? Oh, slut hoes. I was talking to one of my female friends the other day, and she said, I've only had sex with three people. And I was like, Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Huh? Yeah. Wait, do you mean three people this week or last week? So I think wouldn't it be so fun if cis gay men could get pregnant? I think that'd be so fun. First of all, we would make pregnancy very sexy. Like maternity clothing would absolutely involve a cropped up and booty shorts. We'd bust into the bar. We'd be like, "My nipples are so hard. They can cut." You know what I'm saying? I also think we would make pregnancy very fun during the Pride Parade. Happy Pride, by the way, everybody. So during the Pride Parade, it'd be like, there's the dykes on bikes. There's the twinks with kings. Oh, look, it's the pregnant gays. And of course we'd have choreography. We like Bum Bum, bum bum bum bum bum, bum bum bum, bum bum, bum bum ba pre natal that walk boom. chicka boom. chicka boom. Chicka Boom, boom, boom. Chicka chicka boom. Chicka Boom, boom, boom. This is the pot. My water breaks free. I don't want this kid. No Ma chicka boom. Chicka Chicka Boom, boom, boom. Pregnant guys need to get on the floor. Pregnant gays need to dance on the floor. Boom.chicka boom. chicka boom. chicka boom. chicka boom, stop. Lactation time! [gasps for air] That was a lot, that was a lot. [applause] 

Wow. Thank you for going on that insane ride with me. Wow. I don't know what came over me. So, you know, I'm actually glad to be over. I'm in my 40s. I'm glad to not be in my 20s anymore. I was a mess in my 20s Anybody in their early 20s here? Nobody are people in their early 20s? Still disgusting because I was like I remember going to class in college and thinking, "Oh no, I forgot to brush my teeth again. And then the next thought I would have is, you know what? I'm just gonna smoke a menthol." Minty fresh, right? But as you get older, you become disgusting in different ways. Like I'm getting athlete's foot now. I'm gonna get athlete's foot. I just wish getting Athlete's Foot meant you were an athlete. Like, I don't know anything about sports. Like if you try to talk to me about sports, I will consider that a hate crime. Okay, so like, I just, like if you're like, how about the bears? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know anything. Also, I you know, I was the only openly gay person in my high school. I was the only one. And I love to mess with people. So I one year for Halloween. I went to school dressed as a straight guy. That was my costume. So I bought a blow up doll. I dressed her like a cheerleader. And I named her Rubberberta. So Rubberberta and I go to school, and everyone is very confused. Like Manny, what? What is your Halloween costume? I'm like, I'm a straight guy. Helloooo?

Watch this. [Chicago accent] "Chicks boobs beer." By the way, I don't know why all my straight guys go [makes sound] That's not a thing. Like, I've never seen a straight guy do that. I don't know what what that is in my head. That's that's very weird. But at the end of the day, you know, I think I grew up at a time when there weren't a lot of gay people on television. Like the only one I can think of is Donald Duck. You know, he has a sailor hat. And I still walk around the house like Donald Duck with no pants bottoms. So I'm just like, [makes duck sound], and then my husband comes in. He's like, [makes duck sound] and that's how we learn to be gay men. So it's really, really good. So I had this urge the other night, you know, when you get those urges, and I had the strangest urge to organize our Tupperware. So my husband came in while I was doing it. And he's like, so well. Well, well, if it isn't Hairy Squatter. I was like, oh, yeah, well, I'm looking for the sorcerer's bone. He's like, Well, why don't you let me into that Chamber of Secrets. And I'm like, why don't you make me your Prisoner of Azkaban so we joined to Order of the Penis, and my goblet was on fire. And my back started going out but he did something to help it he just went "Scoliosis!" and by the end I performed the Deathly Swallows and what it was all over. He became the half heart Prince. So that was that was really nice. Y'all you guys want to hear his little song? So this is a song I wrote for my husband put yourself in these situations as they're happening and it's a love song to my husband. Oh, by the way, it's called "thighs wide shut" but don't worry about that.

[to "Killing Me Softly"] Strokin' my taint with his finger. Lickin' my nips with his tongue. Filling me softly with his schlong, filling this softly with his schlong, drilling my hole with his sword, filling me softly with his dong...

[singing] Thank you for poundin my end, going up my dirt road and back again. Your talk is true. You're a top and you're confident and if we threw an orgy and we invited everyone we'd screwed, you would see the biggest one would be for me and to the guy attached I'd say thank you for poundin my end.

[singing I'm a believer'] Then he sat on my face! Now I'm a believer. In that juicy behind. I'm in lust. I'm a butt eater. Don't show me wiener or I'll cry.

His jizz His jiz! Unstoppable. His just his. Shake it up, shake it up. Shake it up, shake it up. Shake it off, shake it up, shake it off, shake it off and we'll do anything. But I want do scat. Thank you very much everybody, my name is Manny Petty!

Matthew Amador  15:13  
Let's now give it up for the sponsors of Wild & Sublime, the sponsors who proudly are here with us and do not just discontinue their merchandise and put it in the back of the store or take down their decorations during this month. Most notably the anti racist queer allied sex positive Counseling Center, Rowan Tree counseling. Let's also give it up for our sublime supporter, Pat Cochran, who is right here. From Full Color Life therapy, therapy for all of you, and all of you on everybody's tables right now. You should find some pencils and paper. If you can take time throughout the evening tonight a few we have a prompt here. I knew I was gay, trans lesbian, bi, Poly, kinky, when I (blank), we would love to know what that moment was for you. Also, if you have any questions that you would like to have for a panel and act to throw those in the box as well, let's do it. Some people have said already. [reads] "I knew I was queer when I moved to New York and noticed women making eyes at me on the subway. I'm from Texas." Oh! "I knew I was. I knew I was queer when Jessica Rabbit made her entrance." Fuck yes. Ah. All right. Here are our panelists, everybody. First up we have educator and community activists Sergio Mojica right here. He recently launched the Midwest hub recently launched the Midwest hub for YR media, giving voice mostly to bipoc youth in media arts markets right here. Give it up for Sergio! and next up we have sex positive therapist Andie Baumgartner. How are you doing? She is a kink enthusiast, founder of Rowan tree counseling, one of our sponsors. She did not buy her place up here. I promise she did not buy her. 

Andie Baumgartner  17:05  
Thank you for that.

Matthew Amador  17:08  
We have Nat Vikitsreth, a dot connector, moral agitator, lover of liberation. Did you not? Oh, is this or is this news to you? Guess what? Guess what? You're a dot connector. I'm sorry a norm agitator. I could not see my my own handwriting. A decolonized Licensed Clinical psychotherapist right over here. Check this out. Also a burlesque artist and the host of the Comeback to Care podcast. So I want to start out with: it is pride month TM, trademark, it is pride month. This is a pride show. And probably my favorite definition of pride is "a consciousness of one's own dignity." I really love that one. It's really about living authentically and fearlessly. But also out there there, you know, pride is considered one of the seven deadly sins. So there's like some mixed messaging out there. And depending on what advertisement you're looking for pride as it happens, there's also some mixed messaging about how you're supposed to show up in order to be deserving of pride and to be prideful. So I'm curious, how do you see yourself or others best embodying pride?

Andie Baumgartner  18:21  
I think one of the things I think of is consistency, right? Being a person who is living with integrity, right? Someone who's consistently living as yourself kind of across all of the contexts, right? Like, I don't think pride necessarily has to be about wearing more rainbows in June, although it definitely can be if that's your thing, do you do you but I think at its kind of core is just living as yourself to the extent that it is safe to do so in whatever context you're in. I love that. Because sometimes safety even if you cannot do what you want, because you don't feel safe. It doesn't mean that you're not prideful. It doesn't mean you're on the fence. 

Matthew Amador  18:54  
Right, right. 

Andie Baumgartner  18:56  
Yeah, there are ways to express yourself as who you are, and to feel who you are. Because that I mean, there is a real in a lot of contexts, there is a real danger. There's a real threat for a lot of queer folks in the world today. I don't think that's a surprise to anyone in the room. Right? And so it's not easy necessarily to always present yourself. You no quiere first, I don't think this means you have to like come out to every room that you enter but I think you can live in a way that is true to yourself and align with your values without you know, necessarily again wearing rainbows every single day. 

Sergio Mojica  19:26  
I think allies are necessary ally ship is necessary and showing up is absolutely necessary. Not enough to have a rainbow or sticker. There's a lot that's happening outside of Illinois, making some noise about that some really crazy laws that are happening throughout the United States getting involved having uncomfortable dinner discussions, having uncomfortable Thanksgiving, you know, getting uncomfortable for the right reasons. I think there are ways allies can definitely show up for [garbled].

Matthew Amador  19:53  
Sergio, you've worked a lot with kids, like I mean for as long as I've known you, you have what do you see as being is something that can be helpful for them. Because that's a very different space.

Sergio Mojica  20:03  
You have to create safe, brave spaces, and you have to protect them. Normalize being kind, you know?

Matthew Amador  20:10  
Ding ding Yeah. You can't just say, a place is safe and then not show up for them. 

Sergio Mojica  20:13  
Absolutely, yeah, you just can't give money, you actually should show up and participate, especially what young people they need to see mentors, out there, all colors, all, all everything, because every time we feel other, you know, then we're doing harm. Also,

Nat Vikitsreth  20:29  
I think pride, embodying that pride, is less about authenticity. Because it's not always so safe to walk in the room and say, I am a trans Asian immigrant woman, especially like right now in this room where it's so positive, right, but there's also that thread going in the back of my head, right? Am I safe here? Yeah, does that resonate with all of you? So embodying prior to me is more about embodying the fullness of my dignity of my humanity. I have to think about the parts of myself that I had to leave behind, to contort conform, and perform, to fit in and blend into the wall. And that's my survival strategy. And I'm prideful of what I needed to do to survive. And also prideful knowing that that's not all of who I am, that I am so much more than my gender, and the self sovereignty and self determination, I get to define that for myself, while I'm rooted in my community. And that's pride for me,

Matthew Amador  21:42  
That speaks so strongly to me, Nat. I read a fantastic article that you wrote about living stealth, and how that that had informed you at the time, about safety and about authenticity and about external validation versus internal validation. That was really powerful.

Nat Vikitsreth  21:55  
Thank you so much. Yes, fear is real for me. And when people have dialogue around authenticity, and just like, "go be yourself fully." For me, it just doesn't apply. Like there's still has to be that discernment applied to that. And code -switching is real. 

Matthew Amador  22:19  
You know, that takes me to my next question for everybody. So the world currently isn't structured for queerness. For gayness for trans exists, it's not structured with that in mind. It's sometimes it can allow for it. Although sometimes we have to make space we have to make, make ourselves be known. But things just need to change overall. For that to happen. We need to actively make deliberate choices. Now, a lot of people get stuck. When they think of activism. Sometimes people think ACTIVISM!! like it has to be like all capital letters, and it's in a very scary font. Is there any way that you can think of people approaching just lowercase A activism, like things that people can start with no matter what their identity happens to be, or identity specific? 

Sergio Mojica  23:00  
Well, there was a group that I started with actually in Chicago a while ago, called Gay for Good. And for me, that was a really kind of low stakes entry into kind of queer activism. And the idea was, especially at that time, it was more than five years ago, it's gonna give like the double decades, and it was some time ago, but it was to say, kind of like gay queer people, like we're fine and you're not going to catch the cooties because we made you some sort of vegetable box or something like that. 

Matthew Amador  23:30  
Although it depends on the gay. You know who you are. 

Sergio Mojica  23:35  
Circle, circle dot dot, but something as light as that, like, you know, you can start with the flags and you can start attending rallies, you can start attending ally rallies and you can start getting deeper. But at least there's there are low stakes things that you can participate in Pride marches showing up and a lot of the politicians that you support, they want people to walk behind them. Like there's ways you can slowly start participating without you know, burning down a house yet,

Matthew Amador  24:02  
Yet. 

Sergio Mojica  24:03  
Yeah.

Andie Baumgartner  24:04  
I like that idea of showing up like just showing up in a like minded community. Right and then seeing what opportunities present themselves in that community is activism. Right. You know, you show up in a community, you have an inkling, you have an opportunity and you act right and maybe it's uncomfortable, but maybe it gets less uncomfortable.

Matthew Amador  24:22  
Do you also like the idea of burning down the house?

Andie Baumgartner  24:24  
Obviously 

Matthew Amador  24:25  
Yes. 

Andie Baumgartner  24:26  
Now or...?

Matthew Amador  24:27  
Now that... there you go!  That is activism right there. "Now...?"

Andie Baumgartner  24:32  
I think that's impulsivity.

Matthew Amador  24:36  
Tomato tomahto.

Andie Baumgartner  24:39  
Either way I'm in. Anyway, like,

Nat Vikitsreth  24:42  
this is really fun.

Andie Baumgartner  24:46  
We're a lot of fun.

Nat Vikitsreth  24:48  
I usually come to Karen's show, taking things off, humping the floor, the curtain, and now I get to talk. It's so nice! And I think lowercase activism , often times, and when I do community organizing work or political education work, a lot of people get stuck on "I don't know what I have to contribute." And I think that's individualism kicking in, because I feel like we don't have to know what we have to contribute. Plug in where you are. And ask the organizer, what do you need? If it's within your bandwidth and capacity, then go have fun. And when I talk to kids about activism as a therapist, I teach them how to make a social justice fried rice. 

Matthew Amador  25:37  
tell me more. 

Nat Vikitsreth  25:38  
So social justice fried rice, is like making your favorite fried rice, right? The secret recipe of making a really delicious fried rice is what? Everything! Everything that you have, everything that you already have in the fridge, right? Whether it's your empathy, your compassion, or maybe your hard skills of spreadsheet-making, picking up a phone call, dragging your friends ass. dragging, dragging your friends to go to the movement, right? whatever that is, and also add seasoning. Seasoning please!

Meaning, what is your secret sauce? What is unique to you? Right? For me, I learned from the disabled community that they can go out marching, and they will just be on their mattresses, calling people, organizing rallies, preparing bail funds, so many things, right? Learn from people in the movement, especially the most marginalized ones. And learn from their wisdom and plug in where you are. Plug in.

Matthew Amador  27:00  
And seasoning seasoning seasoning! Yes, thank you. So if you remember back, back when Obama was elected, there were a lot of people you remember that time. There were a lot of people back then. A lot of people when he was elected, were claiming that we were at a place we were post race, mistakenly saying that were replaced that were post race. There are a lot of people, internet voices, who now kind of claim that we're post gay. So how accurate or inaccurate? Ah. So how accurate or inaccurate? Do you think that is right now? Like what use do labels have? What do you see labels having right now?

Andie Baumgartner  27:42  
I mean, I think my like thoroughly anarchist heart loves the idea that we would be like post labels, right? Like, I love that the idea that we don't need to label ourselves and fit into categories and, and boxes and whatnot. But I think that realistically, as long as who you fuck, or how you fuck them, or help or whether or not you do, I think that as long as or love, as long as those things even partially dictate. As long as those things even partially dictate your access to resources, to space, to power to all of these things, as long as it is easier to be straight or to be perceived as straight. I don't think we're post gay. [applause]

Sergio Mojica  28:27  
I was gonna say, just look around, again, the laws that they're trying to pass, obviously, we're not there. I think when we get to a point where we don't have to have laws to protect people just to live and love. I think that's when we get to that particular point,

Andie Baumgartner  28:40  
Right. Because I think when you talk about labels, you're not just talking about being post label, we're not just talking about the labels you give yourself. Other people are labeling you, right, and those labels have power. And as long as those labels that other people can give to you have power, then that, again, we're not post posts a label of any kind.

Matthew Amador  28:57  
That's a big thing I've talked to people a lot in therapy is that the I versus the me, like the I is how you consider yourself, but me is me a name, I call myself me as a name out here that other people interact with. And other people may even call you whether you call yourself that or not. And yeah, labels can sometimes you may not label yourself something but you walk into a room and all of a sudden you do become that.

Nat Vikitsreth  29:19  
Oh, I remember when I was a little boy. And my mom would put me in rainbow leggings. I was rocking this buzz cut. And I thought, oh, maybe it's gay. Like I'm a gay, right? And I was born and raised in Thailand. And the moment I remember when I learned the word transgender, about label everything in my body just melted like a sigh of relief. "that that is me." And then I am on my gender journey to the point now where Oh, yes transgender, that is a part of me. And I am also so much more. So I see the power of labels, for sure when it comes to our own self determination. And we're more, are always more.

Matthew Amador  30:18  
I love that. And you remind me this brings me to our final question here. People do like to say love is love, which I think is a wonderfully adorable political slogan. I think it's cute. It's Hallmark. And it still leaves room for people to have a lot of judgment for who you fuck. If you do it, if you want to do it, who you do it with how you do it. People have a lot of opinions. They'll have a lot of things out there. So I'm curious in terms of expressing intimacy, because that can be sexual. It doesn't have to be, but in terms of expressing intimacy, and living in an authentic and fearless life, what advice do you think you might have for just kind of thinking outside the box?

Sergio Mojica  30:58  
Well, I'll say that, you know, I'll try anything twice. I think that's the answer, right? And I think because the first time you just never know, you just never there's a couple of like, absolutes that teachers know there's certain things in life. But in terms of experimenting, or really exploring, I think, and a little bit of my background, my father is evangelical minister. And so talk about uber repressed. Right now in my adulthood. I'm almost 50. I feel that I'm exploring and I'm trying to be eyes wide open and non judgmental, because, you know, I was raised to judge everybody plus gay. Come on, like, that's, like double judgement, right? So it's all about exploring, I think, at this point, and, and really trying to see what it is and looking beyond the the fantastic dick, you know, the porn and the stuff that really gets heightened, and saying, Wait, there's a reason why people dressed in leather. There's a reason why people get aroused the way they do and just being open about it. And normalizing curiosity, I think is helpful, too.

Matthew Amador  32:00  
I love that. there's there's just a reason there was I was just reminded of this, I found a study recently, where they found that --just talking about fetishes and kinks--they found that if they dressed rats in a jacket, and then had them have sex, then when they took the jacket away, the rats didn't want to have as much sex.

Andie Baumgartner  32:23  
Where did you find this study?

Matthew Amador  32:25  
I have it, I will send it to you. I have it on my on my phone. So that implies that there's a very, there's a very real science behind like kinks and fetishes, and it it also implies that it was someone's job to design a rat sex jacket. Can you imagine the grant funding?? "I'm writing a grant so that I can have an intern to make rat sex jackets"?

Andie Baumgartner  32:51  
Matthew, do you have a closet full of rat sex jackets?

Matthew Amador  32:54  
Two, it's just... I'm the rat.

Andie Baumgartner  33:00  
I don't know how to follow that.

Matthew Amador  33:05  
Examples of thinking outside of the box. Any other rat sex jacket ideas?

Nat Vikitsreth  33:09  
I think for me, I try to force myself to start with pleasure. And it was really hard for me. So I had to start from discomfort. Like any hint of discomfort for me, was definitely a no. Without justifying it, without trying to rationalize it, without trying to force myself into it. If I just feel like a faint  ugh, I don't know. Right? Or maybe I need to try it twice. First, I'm learning something new. But it's just didn't work right to start with pleasure. So I go discomfort first and learn what I didn't like. And then slowly I start to build my capacity to feel like Oh, does this actually okay. This is actually nice. Oooooh, yessssss.

Matthew Amador  34:11  
As a reminder, there is a patio in the back [laughter] if anyone is getting to need some air. This is like that En Vogue video where the guys are like taking off their wedding rings and they're like this for a very select audience knows that. Thank you. That also explains my journey with Malort, like the first time "No, no, not at all. No! Gagging." I like it now. Well, thank you everybody for this.

Karen Yates  34:41  
We then brought the panel back on stage for a few audience questions.

Matthew Amador  34:45  
We have a couple questions from the audience. Andie, Nat and Sergio, the first question I have is this" how many houses have you all burned down since Act One? Andie, I'm asking you."

Andie Baumgartner  34:58  
 I almost said this feels like an interrogation. What's happening? I... No comment. [laughter]

Matthew Amador  35:06  
No, Andie just said, charges pending? I cannot answer that question.

Andie Baumgartner  35:09  
I just vamped until I could come up with the fact that I'm not answering that question.

Matthew Amador  35:15  
[to others] any houses?

Sergio Mojica  35:18  
Yeah, I'm not trying to get arrested right now.

Matthew Amador  35:20  
There we go. Okay, I'm on board with this. So going back to when I was talking about being curious as opposed to being judgmental, one thing from the audience came out about normalizing curiosity, quote, "as a hetero, I worry I will step on toes". And that can be a concern for a lot of people not knowing exactly. They want to be helpful. They want to be curious, but they also don't want to fetishize they don't want to objectify. They don't want to offend. They're curious about exploring, but are I mean, upset about canceled culture upset about like the feelings episode about the world? Any any insight on that at all?

Andie Baumgartner  35:56  
I think I think consent is key there, right? Consent is key, even in a conversation, right. So if you have a curiosity that you want to explore conversationally, it is okay to say like, I would really like to know more about that. Like, would you mind sharing, or like, I would like to invite you to share more about that. I think also, there is a way to express curiosity with judgment and insinuation, and there is a way to express truly pure, innocent curiosity. Right. And so making sure that you are coming from a place of curiosity, and not a place of judgment or insinuation, or assumption, right, truly checking your assumptions at the door and, and finding true curiosity. Yeah.

Nat Vikitsreth  36:35  
I think you will step on someone's toes at some point. And I hope that you can take it as it's not about how nice you are. Right? You took risk to be curious and you explored and you ask questions, like that's worth the celebration, right.

Andie Baumgartner  37:02  
And hopefully, if you do step on someone's toes, there is room for accountability and repair. Right? That's not a dead end, that hopefully, that is not a dead end. That is a starting point for a conversation and more curiosity and accountability. There's a lot of growth and discomfort. And in fact, I don't think there is growth without discomfort, right. And so the discomfort is necessary. And you have to accept that with humility, and accountability. But in in that discomfort, there is a lot of growth and there's a lot of room for learning.

Karen Yates  37:34  
For more information on Nat, Andie and Sergio, go to our show notes. And thanks to Rowan Tree Counseling for sponsoring our live show. Well, that's it folks have a very pleasurable week. Don't miss our next episode, Pride Edition Show part two with storyteller Lily Be, "gender magic" with Rae McDaniel and my sermon on the pubic mound. Thank you for listening. You can follow us on social media @WildandSublime and sign up for newsletters at Wildand sublime.com. Got feedback or an inquiry contact us at info at Wild & sublime.com. I'd like to thank our design Guru Jean-François Gervais and the creative imposter studios are editing company theme music by David Ben-Porat. Our media sponsor is rebellious magazine feminist media at rebellious magazine.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai