New format! In Season 5 we're having sex with comedians. Standup and storyteller Archy Jamjun talks with Karen about polyamory, the Grindr hookup app, his Thai grandfather's "arrangement," frottage, Archy's LGBTQ+ storytelling series, and racism in the gay community.
We're part of the Lincoln Lodge Podcast Network. Check out the video of this interview.
Leave a tip for our work or join our monthly Patreon members’ club, the Afterglow, for discounts and other goodies! Join now to help us continue to spread the message of sex-positivity.
In this episode:
References:
Free download! Get the guide Say It Better in Bed! 3 Practical Ways to Improve Intimate Communication by host Karen Yates
Are you looking for…?
Buzzsprout bonus! Thinking of starting your own podcast? Buzzsprout can help you create, host and promote it! Plus lots of useful tools and resources to streamline the process and level up your pod game. Use our affiliate link for $20 off!
Get tix for our live May 4 show and podcast recording in Chicago--the Jealousy show! Lineup and ticket link here.
New format! In Season 5 we're having sex with comedians. Standup and storyteller Archy Jamjun talks with Karen about polyamory, the Grindr hookup app, his Thai grandfather's "arrangement," frottage, Archy's LGBTQ+ storytelling series, and racism in the gay community.
We're part of the Lincoln Lodge Podcast Network. Check out the video of this interview.
Leave a tip for our work or join our monthly Patreon members’ club, the Afterglow, for discounts and other goodies! Join now to help us continue to spread the message of sex-positivity.
In this episode:
References:
Free download! Get the guide Say It Better in Bed! 3 Practical Ways to Improve Intimate Communication by host Karen Yates
Are you looking for…?
Buzzsprout bonus! Thinking of starting your own podcast? Buzzsprout can help you create, host and promote it! Plus lots of useful tools and resources to streamline the process and level up your pod game. Use our affiliate link for $20 off!
Get tix for our live May 4 show and podcast recording in Chicago--the Jealousy show! Lineup and ticket link here.
Archy Jamjun 0:03
And that's what I love about poly, there's no, "this relationship must meet this expectation or line." Like you can just let the relationship be what it's supposed to be and what you're ready for and what they're ready for and what your chemistry is ready for, and it takes away this pressure of a timeline as well.
Karen Yates 0:24
Welcome to Wild & Sublime, a sexy spin on infotainment, no matter your preferences, orientation, or relationship style. Based on the popular live Chicago show, I chat about sex and relationships with citizens from the world of sex positivity and comedy. You'll hear meaningful conversations, dialogues that go deeper, and information that can help you become more free in your sexual expression. I'm sex educator and intimacy coach Karen Yates.
Our monthly Patreon supporters pay for a large part of our operating expenses. Their contributions from $5 on up help us big time. Plus members get discounts on show tickets and merch and receive Wild & Sublime news before anyone else and more. Interested in helping us spread the message of sex positivity? Go to patreon.com forward slash Wild & Sublime.
Hey, folks, Welcome to Season Five of Wild & Sublime, and we are doing something new this season. This season will be all interviews with comedians about sex, thus the subtitle sex with comedians. And we are now part of the Lincoln Lodge Podcast Network. Lincoln Lodge is the longest running independent comedy showcase in the nation here in Chicago and we are in their studio right now. I'm so excited. I mean, it's so professional. As someone who has been... has been basically producing the podcast from my living room with my computer and my little microphone to actually be in a studio with producer Christine Ferrera and my guest, Archie Jamjun, looking at everyone like this is like crazy. I mean, I know people do this all the time. But for me, this is a big step up. Okay. So why is Wild & Sublime with the Lincoln Lodge? Why are we moving in this direction? Well, if you are a regular listener, or if you come to the live show here in Chicago, you know that I had some major major medical issues earlier in this year and, and I'm fine now. But you know, when you stare death in the face, it really changes you. I mean, this is what happens. It's like, what, what am I doing with my life? So when producer Christine Ferrera approached me, I was here doing an interview with Elizabeth Gomez and Adrienne Gunn about their show. Don't Ruin This for Me. Christine grabbed me afterwards and asked me if I wanted to bring Wild & Sublime here to Lincoln Lodge and suggested that we do a format change as a show with comedians. And at first I was like, what, what? And then I thought about it, and I'm like, Oh, my God, it's sounds so wonderful to laugh and like, you know, like, like, talk about sex and like laugh. I mean, we laugh on the podcast a lot. And the show the live show is very funny. But like to put like comedy front and center in the show, and like talk with comedians about sex, I thought was a freaking brilliant idea.
So, we're going to do like six or eight shows uh episodes. And then we're gonna see you know how that went. And maybe the season after this, we'll mix it up. We'll go back to the old format and mix it with comedians and but but the comedians are here to stay. Okay. Let me just be real clear about that, the comedians are here to stay. And you can check out the video of this on the Lincoln lodge YouTube channel or clips of this interview on the Wild &, Sublime, Instagram and Facebook accounts @Wildandublime. So before I bring on the first guest, let me say, we are recording on the lands of the Council of three fires the Ojibwe, Odawa and the Potawatomi nations comprised of the indigenous people that have lived here previously, and there are many other nations that have lived here, but I feel it's really important to acknowledge the people in the lands that were here before the colonial intruders. So on to our first guest. Hi Archy.
Archy Jamjun 4:47
Hi,
Karen Yates 4:48
Archy Jamjun is the curator of Outspoken, anLGBTQ story series at Sidetrack bar. He is the two time winner of the Moth Grand Slam. I didn't know that until I was like putting your bio together. It's amazing. He is a gunkel and has been published by Chicago magazine, Barrelhouse, and the Coachella review. Archy was on our live show several times as a storyteller. He's done two stories with us. And a very funny storyteller. So I was really happy to hear that he has been adding stand up to his repertoire. Welcome, Archy.
Archy Jamjun 5:31
Hi. Thanks for having me.
Karen Yates 5:32
Yeah, absolutely. So you're you're doing stand up now?
Archy Jamjun 5:35
Yeah, actually, I start a class here on July 5. That'll be my second stand up class, actually.
Karen Yates 5:41
Oh, that's so amazing. So because you know, I was reading your stories, because on the website, we have transcripts. And I was just really struck. I mean, you are an incredibly funny storyteller. But I was when I was actually reading the transcript. I'm like, Oh, my God, this is just so tight. It's so packed with comedy. So how is it crafting a story and then moving to stand up?
Archy Jamjun 6:07
I'm really excited to do stand up because I think naturally, my stories, I can only be funny, like, I have to process everything through humor. It's one of the tricks of storytelling. I need that constant feedback when I'm storytelling of people laughing a lot. So I always wanted to try stand up. But I didn't want to get up on a stand up stage and tell a full story, even though I know there are funny parts. But I just wanted to learn how to stand up there and talk and be funny and punch, punch punch. So
Karen Yates 6:38
Do you feel like do you find it a little more... Do you like it better?
Archy Jamjun 6:43
Um, I don't know that I like it better. I like them in different ways. You know, the first time I did stand up at our graduation show, I really felt like, alright, this feels really good. Like I really, really enjoyed it because I didn't have to stick to my script as much and I can go off a little bit more. Right. So that's what I really really enjoy about standup I am scared of Stand Up audiences more than I am scared of storytelling audiences. So yeah,
Karen Yates 7:09
They're a little harder.
Archy Jamjun 7:10
Yeah, storytelling people just want to love you. Stand ups like dance monkey dance.
Karen Yates 7:17
So did you did you win an award from the governor or something? I remember a couple of months ago, I was scrolling and there was all this like, there was like, it was like, what? what? what's happened to Archie?
Archy Jamjun 7:27
Oh, well, Outspoken got into the LGBTQ Hall of Fame in Chicago. Well, we got to accept that award. And then a department of Illinois that is connected to the governor also gave us an award! The manager at sidetrack, Brad, went to go get that award. So we got two in the fall. So it looked real.
Karen Yates 7:53
It looks so professional.
Archy Jamjun 7:54
Felt very...to be honored by the government. Oh my!
Karen Yates 8:01
Right. There's a weird kind of dichotomy of like, We're a series. It's at Sidetrack bar. And now, we have hit the big time with the state of Illinois.
Archy Jamjun 8:09
Yeah.
Karen Yates 8:10
How many years have you been doing that? Curating.
Archy Jamjun 8:12
You know, I was just talking to somebody about this. And I think five to six. Like definitely since 2016, because I can, you know, that was a very memorable year. And I remember curating Outspoken that year, but that probably that was probably like my first year doing it.
Karen Yates 8:27
And it's once a month, once a month, right?
Archy Jamjun 8:29
Once a month.
Karen Yates 8:29
Okay, and how many storytellers are on it?
Archy Jamjun 8:32
Six a month.
Karen Yates 8:34
So what has that been like? I mean, where are you at with it?
Archy Jamjun 8:37
You know, when I first started, it was really, really hard. I think, well, a few great things have happened to me because of curating Outspoken. The first big thing I would say is like, I finally feel like I have space. And in Boystown. Like I never really felt like I belonged there. And I think a lot of that was projections in my own head, but also processing also what's really there, which is like it's kind of like a white space. Especially when I was in my 20s, which is like 20 years ago. So yeah, I feel like wow, I have a community and I belong in Boystown. Now because of Outspoken. And then I've just become a better leader, organizer and more confident in myself. Because when I first started curating, you know, there's a lot of things you need to keep people in line with when you're doing a storytelling show like is your story and time collecting data? And I've just had to learn how to be a bigger boss and trust that I know what's going to be right and not the person performing.
Karen Yates 9:38
My god I know. Right?
Archy Jamjun 9:40
It's really hard. It's really hard because I'm a people pleaser. So like switching into that gear is really hard for me. And these are things I needed to learn. I think
Karen Yates 9:48
I know I know. It is hard. I mean, I feel the same way. My show is the same same thing where you kind of have to like, I don't want to say crack the whip, because it's really not that harsh, but like you just have to tell people this is what I want. Can you deliver that? Like, can you do this?
Archy Jamjun 10:02
Yeah, cuz I mean, it's hard because we're not paying people. So I'm not I'm not, I can't like hold a check over people's head or anything. It's just like, you know, if you want to be part of this show, there are some just very small things I need you to do. Like, please don't go over 12 minutes, don't you know, please tell me what you're going to talk about beforehand.
Karen Yates 10:20
And it's amazing. Like, how many people don't don't like can't follow that?
Archy Jamjun 10:24
It is it is. But I've gotten better at putting up the boundaries before the night of the show to make sure that all goes right.
Karen Yates 10:32
So what do you think Outspoken has basically, I mean, you just explained what it has done what it has done for you. But what is it done? Do you think for the community?
Archy Jamjun 10:42
Oh, wow. Like when they started outspoken, I wasn't part of it. But they were just planning to do a few shows. Maybe, maybe for like half a year maybe. And what it's done for the community is totally filled this need where people need this space to tell talk about either the trauma they've been through, the joy they've been through, whatever it is, but they've been through. I don't think there ever was a space in Boystown, or maybe in the I don't want to say the queer community of Chicago, because I'm sure there was, but such a big public spot with a crowd of zero to 300 people.
Yeah, I mean, sidetrack is a big bar. It's a big notable bar in the gay community, yeah, Chicago.
And then there's just this kind of this. It's like a loop between the teller and the audience. As the tellers've gotten more comfortable telling more traumatic, or whatever, deeper stories from themselves, the audience got better at putting out that love and creating that safe space. So I don't really take credit for it. It's just something that happened between the team between the powers of the universe, but there's, there's a magical vector thing there. And so the audience is super supportive, the tellers feel comfortable, and that that's what it's doing for the community, giving people a space to be heard, but also to listen to things that they can relate to. And then feel comfortable, because a lot of people in that audience never want to come up to tell the story. But they do keep coming back to listen to them.
Karen Yates 12:07
Right. It's like I noticed in the early days of Wild &, Sublime, because we're going to be celebrating our fifth anniversary in October, and you are going to be there.
Archy Jamjun 12:15
I'll be there for doing that.
Karen Yates 12:17
Yeah. But I remember the first couple of shows because it's once a month, it was at that point, a once a month live show, there is a thing that trust had to be built. Because when you're talking about this really vulnerable stuff like sex like people are like, okay, like, where are you going to go with this? Like are you going to like take a dark turn, or are you going to go somewhere that's like, frightening to me? And I noticed over time, you know, the audience just kind of settled down, like, oh, okay, and like, they would write more like prompts or they would write more questions. And I could tell by like, the amount of questions we would get for q&a, or the amount of question prompts, we would get answers that like, Oh, my God, they're like, they're trusting us. They're trusting us. It's so incredible.
Archy Jamjun 13:00
I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Storytelling is kind of my I always tell people storytelling is what church used to be like, No, people don't go. And not that I know what happens in church, but
Karen Yates 13:12
Well, that's actually that's actually interesting. Because you're Buddhist, right?
Archy Jamjun 13:18
Yes.
Karen Yates 13:18
And you are Thai?
Archy Jamjun 13:20
Yes.
Karen Yates 13:20
So what let's let's, let's let's move on down the line here. What was it like growing up in a Thai household? Knowing...well, you didn't like know you're gay, but you kind of knew.
Archy Jamjun 13:31
Oh, I kind of knew, you know, everybody kind of knew! [laughing]
Karen Yates 13:37
The only the only reason I say this, I'm thinking of Archie's first story on the show,
Archy Jamjun 13:42
Yeah. My girlfriend in that story definitely knew by the end, yeah. Um, you know, thinking about that, and I think it was a lot of mixed messages. Because Thai culture is for Asian cultures are very accepting of gay life. I don't know if that's a stretch to say. But, for example, when I was little, I remember my family taking me to a drag show when I was like eight or 10 years old. But I also remember my aunt lying to me and being like, you know, Archy, you know, how they get these performaners, they kidnapped little boys, and then they turn them into women, and they make the perform. So I was like, went to the show, and I was like, terrified. And they were like, they gave like a free orange juice to people, and I refuse. I was like, I'm not drinking the juice. The juice is poisoned.
And then when the performer like came out into the audience, I like leapt over like two people to go into my dad's arm so he would like know, I couldn't get kidnapped. I was very scared of being kidnapped for that. But, you know, like, you know, that's very progressive to take your kid to a drag show when they're eight. And but my, you know, my mom is like, my biggest cheerleader and I, you know, I'm very close to my mother, but she also was the one person that was like, "so you will marry a woman one day right?" After I came out, she was very like that. Uh, but you know, I think about my grandfather was gay. And like I didn't find out until I ...when I came out. So I found out when I was about 20. And like I would go to Thailand every summer with my family, and my grandfather and my grandma slept in separate rooms. That was kind of like not that surprising, because my grandma was really loud. But my grandfather always was next to the strapping farmhand right? And like, I mean, they only hung out like they hung out in their own hut. Now, and it all makes sense. And I like it. When my grandfather passed, he left him a house and he left him with a little bit of land that he could run like he, my grandfather was like a sugar daddy right in front of me the whole time. And I didn't put it all together.
Karen Yates 15:50
Is that going to be a story? My grandfather was a sugar daddy.
Archy Jamjun 15:53
Oh my God, that's a great idea.[laughing] It is a very part small part of my coming out story that I do about what I come up to my mother. But you're right, it does deserve to be its own story. But I've just been putting the pieces together. In my mind, you know, over the last, I guess it's been a while, but I just haven't really thought about it as much as I have in the last five years since my aunt died maybe like five years ago that I've been really thinking,
Karen Yates 16:17
Well, you know, it's interesting, you bring that up, because after my mother died, my my dad died first. And then my mom died a couple years later, and they were divorced. And this... This is part of my story. A friend of my mother's called and was like, "you know, your, your dad was gay, right?" And I was like, "wha..?" Like, like, it was like, it was like I knew/ I didn't know. I knew/I didn't know. I knew/I didn't know, you know what I mean? Like, but like, what I realized later is that he was bisexual, right? Do you know what I mean? He was bisexual, and but like, you start like the memory, you start sifting through memory and like these little shards of memory will start just sort of dropping in like, Ohhhh! So you know?
Archy Jamjun 17:02
Like, I remember the feel like the feeling of confusion of like being in Thailand and seeing my grandpa and him...What's going on? Something is different than that. I don't know. Yeah. So close.
Karen Yates 17:17
We'll return to our conversation in a moment. Just a few simple sentences can change your intimate life. Want to know what they are? Download the free guide, "Say it better in bed. Three practical ways to improve intimate communication" to get easy tools to put into action immediately. Go to wild & sublime.com to get yours. [to Archy]So, you know, the story I want to talk about with you today is the second story you've told on the Wild & Sublime stages was about you know, you broke up with a partner after many years. And you hit the ground running with Grindr.
Archy Jamjun 17:56
Yeah, you know, something I've really discovered about myself, since the breaking up is like monogamy is really forced on me. It brings out a horrible side of me a jealous horse. I don't know, just not like a great side of Archy. Also, I'm like, a really wonderful slut. Like, you know, like, I really enjoy it. I really enjoy different people. And there's no need to. I don't know, like I've really liked my life right now sexually.
Karen Yates 18:23
Yeah. So what I wanted to talk about so for those of you who don't know, and we talked about this quite a lot on the recent Zachary Zane interview I did about Grindr. If you want to know all about the Grindr culture, you can definitely listen to that interview but you said and I wanted to dig into this just because you said your first the first emojis on your on your profile are Hear No Evil, speak no evil, See no evil. Rainbow Unicorn? What for you-- Because I love emoji languaging--Like, what...What does that mean? Like, what does the three monkeys mean to you?
Archy Jamjun 18:57
I think it for me, it basically meant like I come in peace.[laughs] I'm not looking for any drama. I'm not going to tell your wife about anything. Like I'm really open to meeting people from different situations. I don't you know, as I want you to be honest with me, I want to be honest with you. I can't really control if you're honest, in your own life to your other people. And I'm probably not that interested in engaging too much with someone who can't be honest with the people in their lives. But as far as our first Grindr connects, I come in peace. Shalom. How can I help you?
Karen Yates 19:43
So you explain in the story about how like, eventually everyone, everyone wants to wants to know what you're into right now.
Archy Jamjun 19:51
This is the way like there's like a standard it could almost be like a scripted sales pitch when you're on Grindr, like "hi How are you today? What are you into host travel? Can I see your album?" Like it's just like a protocol checklist thing, right? And then and then you, you know, I usually, I mean, I do like to chat to people before I meet them just because like, you want to get a sense of who you are the scariest people are the ones that like, send you a dick pic. And then they're like, can I come over and you're like, this is very, I was just making pasta. I don't know. Suddenly my options have changed.
Karen Yates 20:28
What do they get..Dto they get really like cranky? If you're like, can you give me half an hour?
Archy Jamjun 20:34
Um, I wouldn't say cranky, they just disappear or they keep talking to you. You know? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Karen Yates 20:41
So so you can always you can say I'm a top I'm a bottom I'm a vers bottom. I'm a vers top. Verse straight up or side.
Archy Jamjun 20:51
Yeah, right.
Karen Yates 20:52
And what what's your distinguishing How do you distinguish between---So vers means versatile. What's the difference between a vers bottom and a bottom?
Archy Jamjun 21:00
A bottom is someone that will will just only bottom is only interested in bottom, bottoming, a verse bottom, I can only talk about what it means to me. I'm mostly a bottom, but I call myself a vers bottom. Because once in a while there's just the chemistry or the right ass that makes me want to top. And it's usually a combination. And it's always a surprise. I can never plan on top. Oh, wow. Like I'm filled with dread. There's so many expectations so much pressure. It's like I'm a child going to take the SATs again, I can't do that. But it'll just meet someone. And if my dick says yes, then that it's yeah, that can happen. But I just never know until I meet the person. And it may not happen again. The next session is just very in the moment. I'm trying to grow the top spirit in me. But honestly, it doesn't. I don't think that spirit is that large.
Karen Yates 22:00
So So what explain what aside is because I think this is a wonderful like new kind of thing.
Archy Jamjun 22:07
That's fine. I'm still learning what a side is. I met aside last week, which I'll get into that story. But aside, it's basically like no, a no printed penetration. So like it can be anything besides that, yeah. So
Karen Yates 22:20
So oral,
Archy Jamjun 22:21
oral
Karen Yates 22:22
Frottage?
Archy Jamjun 22:23
Yeah. Frottage? Oh my god. I was saying frott-tag.
Karen Yates 22:26
No, do you know what the people like? I've seen frottaghe, but it's frottazhe
Archy Jamjun 22:32
Frottazhe?
Karen Yates 22:34
It's French.
Archy Jamjun 22:35
Ah!
Karen Yates 22:36
It means rub in French.
Archy Jamjun 22:38
Yes. So I met a guy last week. He was so hot. He was like six foot four, half black half white blond dreads, blue eyes, dark skin. And he just wanted to frottage.. And like, he told me he was aside. And I thought that meant to in my head. It meant everything but penetration. So when I went to try to give him head he was like, no, no, no, no! And I was like, Okay, I was still, you know, there's still plenty to do. It's fine. But yeah, it was expanding my definition.
Karen Yates 23:08
Oh, wow. So he didn't want to do oral.
Archy Jamjun 23:10
He didn't. He did let me lick his balls. But what a surprise
Karen Yates 23:13
But not his dick?
Archy Jamjun 23:14
Not his dick.
Karen Yates 23:15
Wow.
Archy Jamjun 23:16
And I think it was, I don't know, It could be what you're comfortable with.
Karen Yates 23:21
Sure.
Archy Jamjun 23:22
It could be your level of like coming out in this.
Karen Yates 23:24
Yeah.
Archy Jamjun 23:24
And what you're willing to? It could be any reason ... what your rules with your partner are?
Karen Yates 23:29
Did you see the Michael Henry video on being side? Did you see this?
Archy Jamjun 23:33
No.
Karen Yates 23:34
Oh, I gotta I gotta show it to you. I'll put it I'll drop a link in the note
Archy Jamjun 23:37
I'm actually most interested in siding because it can happen so quickly-- I'm like, Oh, I don't have to prep? wonderful. Come on over. Like can we do this in 10-15 minutes? Yeah, you can be over soon.
Karen Yates 23:49
and like so what I found out from this video was like there's like 25% of gay men identify as a side
Archy Jamjun 23:56
Oh wow.
Karen Yates 23:56
It's like a lot bigger number than you would think. And I was like looking at the comments in the in the in the YouTube video and I was expecting some horrible you know, horrible comments like there are, and people were like, "oh my god, this is such a an amazing like, step forward in gay evolution!"! Like the fact that Grindr finally added it in their list of identifying characterstics...
Archy Jamjun 24:17
It's like the Webster's Dictionary Grindr. If it's on Grindr, it's official.
Karen Yates 24:24
So yeah, so um, I don't know like, do you think it's do you think for yourself?
Archy Jamjun 24:31
for myself? It could never be my complete definition because I want to bottom and I want that penetration. But I think meeting sides is like a great time, like I don't I there's you know, there's so much to do there's so much fun. i There are oral things that I really enjoy doing that most sides are into, so it's not a problem for me at all. Yeah, party. Yeah.
Karen Yates 24:56
So when you mentioned earlier that you were you know, loving polyamory like, and that you found yourself more jealous when you are monogamous, that really struck me. And so, like, what is your poly life look like? Is it is it has it expanded? Is it, is it hookups? Is it is it? Do you have multiple, like emotional relationships? Like how does this look?
Archy Jamjun 25:19
I have two main emotional relationships I would say. I have like someone that I've, I almost call them like my romantic friend because it almost like sexually we don't really like, do too much anymore. But we have like a romantic friendship. And so there's that muscle like casually dating someone who actually introduced the whole idea of poly to me---who's a big fan of yours, actually. And so we have, you know, I have like some feelings for him. But I always am getting, I don't. Of course, an anonymous hookup can be fun or whatever. But I actually like I like to get to know people. I like to--
Karen Yates 25:59
Consistency. Yeah, like, I'm a big fan of...,
Archy Jamjun 26:01
I always joke I was like, in a Grindr marriage from like, December to March because it was like the same person for five months. And like, you know, that doesn't always happen. And like, you know, I got it on a scale of one to 10 I got to know him I'd say like to like a four or five level. And that was what worked. And that's what kind of what I love about Poly there is no, "this relationship must meet meet this expectation" or like, like you can just let their relationship be what it's supposed to be and what you're ready for and what they're ready for and what your chemistry is ready for. And takes away this pressure of a timeline as well.
Right? Like, oh, I've been dating this person for three months. We must be right.
Karen Yates 26:44
The escalator.
Archy Jamjun 26:47
Yeah, yeah, that escalator can go up and down.
Karen Yates 26:51
It does sound like you're almost a relationship anarchist, which is--
Archy Jamjun 26:54
Oh, I love that. It sounds so rebellious.
Karen Yates 26:57
It's like really like not putting labels on anything. And on any relationship, you know, so when you talked about your romantic, your romantic relationship that might not be quite sexual anymore. It's like, but it still holds. It's like everything is equal, like your friends have as much status as your lovers. You know, because sometimes when they get in, when people get into relationships, the lovers are prioritized and the friends like, but it's really just kind of putting everyone on the on the same on the same plane.
Archy Jamjun 27:25
Yeah, I just, you know, after that eight years of monogamy and how focused I was on one person, you know, I just, I may see that again, in my life. In another decade or so. But just like right now, I just can't imagine that, you know, being so close to one person. Yeah.
Karen Yates 27:43
Yeah. I mean, do you think? And I'm asking this kind of from a personal perspective as well. Do you think that you're, like fleeing that relationship? Because I know it was like an ugly breakup, right? I've never heard the story about it. Like this funny storytellers leave trails of their lives in line, right? Yeah, no, God. But like, like, do you feel sometimes I feel like my exploration of poly came after, you know, some, some relationships broke up and I'm like, I, I really do not want to be back in this space. Like I need to explore. Like, what, what for you is is poly exploration first and foremost, or is it do you feel deep in your soul? You're polyamorous?
Archy Jamjun 28:32
I think it definitely started because I was scared to ever be that close to someone again. And I. But that's just only that's the reason it started, right? Like, I didn't want to commit to anyone. When I would date somebody, kind of like after the third date, I would find my feelings like disappeared. Like I was unable to get a lot of emotional depth for anybody. But now I just kind of feel like this is how I want to live my life or like this is what is making me happiest or this is the best way to get to know people. That's how I actually feel. But what in like, what I love about poly is like, it gives you room to change your mind later. You know? Yeah, I don't maybe I will be ready for something more serious. But like, I don't know. I just like I think echo the same thing. It leaves you the space to explore.
Karen Yates 29:31
Yeah, yeah. And like not putting these immediate constraints on. Because like some people I know people who are like sort of, to be honest, anti-poly are like, well, can't you just call it dating around and I'm like, No, it's not dating around because you can actually enter a room with like three of your partners and they're all like chill. Like that's the difference, that's the difference really for me
Archy Jamjun 29:52
yeah, I don't know that I'm quite there. I had this discussion with someone that the my one of my polies, I forget the terms--
And like, I guess like, I don't have to know about his other lovers. Right. Like, we don't talk about it that much. We've gotten to the point where I'm kind of okay hearing but, but but that's kind of the growth that I love with poly like when I first started, and we first started dating, I remember he mentioned someone else he he was dating and I just like, lost my mind. I was like, How could you say these things to me? Even though I know I don't want to know, you know? And then, you know, he kind of apologized me, we made up and then I was like, What is the point of being angry? Like that over these kinds of things. So I'm kind of I think I'm somewhere in between where I would like now I'm like, comfortable hearing him talk about other people, he dates or other romantic situations that have happened to him. I don't know if I'm ready to see somebody, but I can definitely imagine it. I could imagine in a year or so I'd be like, Okay, I could meet like somebody else you're dating, you know?
Karen Yates 31:02
Yeah, it really does change over time.
Archy Jamjun 31:04
Certainly, because, yeah, I just love that. Like, you Why hold on to certain bad feelings. You know? Yeah. Why? Why indulged in those feelings? Yeah,
Karen Yates 31:13
yeah. So I want to get back to, you know, something you were talking about at the very beginning, which was that Outspoken had has created sort of a home for you, or a sense of belonging in the gay community in Chicago. I think that's what I heard you say? And I want to talk about your, how being Asian and gay has, you know, you feel, you know, the show has given you a sense of, you know, belonging or safety because you've created it. I mean, I know you you came on later, but you basically have created the way it is now. But I know Grindr can be crazy racist. Like how are you like right now, like, with like...?
Archy Jamjun 31:56
I always tell myself I'm the most adorable invisible person in the world. Like, it is a weird fight inside your head. I always talk about, I try not to be shy about talking about how confident I am in my looks and how beautiful I am to me, because I actually think it's like an act of protest for a gay Asian man to be like, Look, I'm hot. Right? Because I when I go out, I still often feel invisible.
If I'm not in that Sidetrack room at that Outspoken, like, and on Grindr. I mean, there's definitely like, I know, I'm getting shut down because I'm Asian to like, tons of people every day that I reach out to. And I know that a white guy has a much easier time hooking up with people, but you know, I don't lack for hookups or anything like that. So there's that. I'm like, how much more sex could I possibly have anyways. But I don't know, sometimes it hurts. Sometimes it still hurts. And you just have to, I just have to still believe that I'm attractive. I still do believe that I you know, there are a lot of great things about me, because it can wear you down. It feels really sad sometimes to be like, I think I'm hot. I don't know what else I can do to be attractive. But a certain large percentage of the gay community is always going to look right past me. And I just have to accept that. And that's part of my life. And I wouldn't give up being Asian for anything. So you know, you kind of have to take the good and the bad. And what's very interesting, because I'm 43 So when I was in my 20s, it was a much bigger thing. It's gotten a little bit better now. What's what's amazing is like, I feel like I want to honor BTS because they really changed.
Karen Yates 33:50
Oh, my God, like,
Archy Jamjun 33:54
Gen Zers love me.
Karen Yates 33:58
Oh my god, like the impact. I have a friend. She's in her 50s. She's so into BTS. And like, it's just like--plus, it's it's like their fluidity, right, like, the way they present and the fluidity of their presentation in terms of gender. It's, it's remarkable. It's remarkable.
Archy Jamjun 34:17
Yeah, I mean, it's such an interesting...One time I was working, and I went up to this table, you know, it's a family and this 12-year-old girl started crying and I was like, is she is she okay? And the mom was like, you know, we're from Kansas, and she loves BTS, and she just doesn't really see many Asian people. I'm like, you know, I think I was like, 38 at the time, and I'm like, okay, there I only can take the positive from this because like, Great you think I look like a 21 year old Kpop Star. Wonderful. Like I'm gonna take that as a win. Even though this is slightly racist, or racist. Racist racist, but, you know, what are you gonna do?
Karen Yates 35:02
Oh my god. Oh my god,
I'm gonna take the good.
Oh my God,
Archy Jamjun 35:06
look, it's better than someone saying, "You're so cute. I would almost sleep with you but you're Asian, you know"--which is like, that was what I would hear in my 20s.
Karen Yates 35:15
Yeah. Oh my god.
Archy Jamjun 35:17
That's okay.
Karen Yates 35:20
Yeah, yeah.
Archy Jamjun 35:21
Like I don't know why you felt the need to say that. You just pass.
Karen Yates 35:26
Yeah. Anything else you want to say? Um, what are you doing that like what's what's what's on what's on next for Outspoken? Is it?
Archy Jamjun 35:38
Well our next show is July 11. So the week after July 4, we're usually the first Tuesday but that's the second Tuesday. Okay. And then August is our, I want to say it's 10th. But it might be ninth anniversary, We're doing something special.
I have a bunch of like, I don't I guess I can call them like just really important people from the gay community telling stories that night. So that'll be really great. And then I'm very excited because this is my last week of full time work. I'm going down to part time and I'm taking my stand up class I'm doing an acting class. I want to try to get a talent agent I just it's just like a little bit of like, Let's go for the artistic goals a little bit harder kind of era. So I'm really excited to to start that I can't wait. I can't wait to see what happens.
Karen Yates 36:27
Thank you, Archy.
Archy Jamjun 36:27
Thank you Karen.
Karen Yates 36:32
Wild & Sublime is supported in part by our sublime supporter full color life therapy. Therapy for all of you at full color light therapy.com Thank you for listening. Know someone who'd liked this episode, send it to them. You can follow us on Facebook Tiktok and Instagram at Wild & Sublime and sign up for newsletters at Wild & sublime.com. Got feedback or an inquiry contact us at info at Wild & sublime.com And we'd love a review or rating on your podcast player. I'd like to thank our design Guru Jean-François Gervais the music by David Ben-Porat This episode was produced and edited by Christine Ferrera at the Lincoln Lodge podcast studio as part of the Lincoln lodge Podcast Network.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai